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Poster: MrMovie Date: Mar 24, 2006 2:40am
Forum: prelinger Subject: Re: Copyrights Being Ignored ??

Those films used on cruise ships or where-ever, are not purchased but leased (rented) from and/or given to the cruise lines by companies that supply 16mm prints to thoes specific industries and/or persons. They are normally short term rentals and have to be returned within a specific time frame. Therefore, it would be virtually impossible to resell something that was not legally yours to sell in the first place. I seriously doubt that anyone who has these 16mm films has a "Legal" receipt from the company and/or persons they got them from. How many of you are old enough to remember seeing movies in school, where the AV dept. would roll in a 16mm projector and you'd see a lot of what is here on the archive? Well, where do you think those films came from? They came from distributors that catered to schools. If one of those prints mysteriously didn't get back to the distributor, the school would be billed for the replacement cost of the film. I don't remember if Rick or Skip said that it's okay to have a 16mm print but it is not okay to have an illegal copy on DVD or Video. So what this means, is that if you were to purchase one of these "Alleged" "Legal" 16mm prints and convert it to DVD or Video and sell it, it is now an illegal item. If you think about it, not only does this logic make no sense but it also proves just how messed up the copyright law really is.

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Poster: scooter_nyc Date: Mar 26, 2006 8:47pm
Forum: prelinger Subject: Re: Copyrights Being Ignored ??

Mr. Movie, not to be rude here, but what POSSIBLE difference could it make in your life if someone is selling a 16mm print of a film on ebay? Unless you're personally a party to the copyrights involved in any of those films or the sales of said films, I honestly don't see how it would concern you. Even if the films are being sold illegally (which I doubt) you have exactly zero standing to complain about it.

Self-appointed copyright vigilantes give me the chills when it comes to ebay. There are far too many deluded people on ebay who spend their time filing complaints about movies that they *believe* are being sold illegally. And since ebay can't investigate, they simply err on the side of caution and pull the listing and/or bounce the seller. There's very little that the seller can do, since it's often difficult to prove the legality of an item to ebay.

I don't doubt that the companies that used to rent 16mm films to airlines and schools and the like eventually sold or donated their wares as the format became less popular. Isn't that scenario far more likely than the rampant theft that you seem to imagining?

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Poster: MrMovie Date: Mar 31, 2006 4:42am
Forum: prelinger Subject: Re: Copyrights Being Ignored ??

I'm far from beng a "self-appointed copyright vigilante" as you so inferred. I was trying to make a point about copyrights when another person referenced the 'orgin' of those prints. And, by the way, I worked in the motion picture industry for more than 40 years (which possibly could be longer than you are alive) so I don't think there is any need for me to continue to banter with your "I don't want to be rudeness" but were.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffakb Date: Mar 24, 2006 5:15am
Forum: prelinger Subject: Re: Copyrights Being Ignored ??

I read an interesting blog post recently by a copyright lawyer entitled " eBay and First Sale of Educational Books". It talks about a principle of "exhaustion" of the right to restrict sales by the copyright holder and what relevance a contract might have to someone not a party to that agreement.

The issue you raise about making DVD copies of the 16mm film and selling them, that's a copyright issue, not a first sale issue. That is, making and selling new copies of a film would not be legal whether or not the film was legally obtained, if the underlying work was protected by copyright.

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Poster: wood_winds Date: Jan 2, 2007 5:30am
Forum: prelinger Subject: Re: Copyrights Being Ignored ??

I am new to this issue of film copyrights. I recently acquired a 20 minute 16mm educational film from 1948. The information is outdated but is historically interesting. I would like to convert it to DVD so I can study it and possibly show it to a group of local historians for discussion. I don't plan to sell copies or make money on it - simply use it for its original educational intent. Does anyone know if this violates copyright laws? I would very much appreciate your thoughts.